[ytlee]

When you are in england or europe or china, your family heritage plays a very important role in your future. Family connect is more important than your talent and knowledge.

In US, what you can do and hard work will overcome the "connection" disadvantage. With determination and good education, a positive attitude, many of my classmates make their name and fortune in US.

The freedom to archive your dream, IMHO, is the reason why so many scientists/engineers/financial/etc come to US. As long as US enjoying the brain drain advantage, US will remain the world power. So, it is not surprising that many chinese students decide to stay in US after they complete their education. Their stay is china loss and US gain.

For the past few years, I saw China implemented new policy to stop the brain drain but I still see signs that discourage returning of chinese students back to china. That is very unfortunate.

In this forum, "how to gain traction in US" is very active but I like to see discussion how the chinese students in US get a positive foothold in china. Would that be a helpful discussion?

[roc999]

现在的实际情况是国内石油行业的年轻人能力强的很多都在想往国外跑， 来美国的基本上都留下来。
石油做技术的中国人在美国比在中国好混多了，虽然不能发大财，经过一二十年的积累，过上衣食无忧的中上产体面生活还是非常容易得。
国内石油行业由于体制原因没有长期重视技术的传统，技术人员受不到重视，技术人员待遇和美国差距太大。另外国内人口多，社会大环境差，诚信缺乏，物价房价高，健康安全缺乏保障，即使经济上和美国同等待遇也不见得有竞争力。除非发生大规模的战争或者排华运动这样的极端事件，否则在国内条件大大改善之前大规模美国石油海归是不现实的。我有个别石油行业海龟的朋友，我密切关注他们的发展，希望他们能够得到自己追求的。

[roc999]

这个问题不光是中国存在，对于很多其他和中国国情类似的国家都存在。 我的一个委内瑞拉朋友来美国之前在委内瑞拉国家石油公司就混的不错，美国毕业之后信心满满要海龟委内瑞拉去帮Hugo干，回去之后果不其然几年之内就混到了很高的技术职称。 本以为他顺风顺水，结果前几天给我说他又归海休斯顿加入了一个major.


update 3/23/2012
前几天和他见面喝酒，问他为啥回美国。他说受不了委内瑞拉的政治。不喜欢天天学习查韦斯总统的三个代表思想， 于是被穿小鞋，于是就回休斯顿加入了一个大major, 在Katy买了大房子。

[晚雨Paradise]

两位版主，你们的话真的让我们后辈很受启发，尤其是像我们这种刚刚进入职场的菜鸟。谢谢你们！

[akabc47]

roc999说的很对啊，其实不光国外的人出于各种考虑不愿回去，国内的人也不愿意海归回去抢他们的饭碗，从今年饶毅，施一公院士落选的事就可以看出来，国内不稀罕人才，想回国施展抱负的想法是一厢情愿的，除非回去走穴吹牛比如杨振宁，或者招摇撞骗比如唐骏之流才有市场。

[ytlee]

引用框（akabc47 ＠ 12-29-2011 - 14:19）

roc999说的很对啊，其实不光国外的人出于各种考虑不愿回去，国内的人也不愿意海归回去抢他们的饭碗，从今年饶毅，施一公院士落选的事就可以看出来，国内不稀罕人才，想回国施展抱负的想法是一厢情愿的，除非回去走穴吹牛比如杨振宁，或者招摇撞骗比如唐骏之流才有市场。

From my own observation, 国内不稀罕人才 is not true, especially in oil & gas, china is still very much lacking US.


As for 国内的人也不愿意海归回去抢他们的饭碗, I believe only 国内的人who are not qualified for他们的饭碗 hold this view. Many of my colleagues/school mates/friends who went back, only two took replacement positions (one as professor and other as auditor), all other positions are new. Many created new 饭碗 for 国内人. For example, one classmate build a hotel chain that employs hundreds locals. One build a factory for small engines and is the main employer for the village. So I don't consider 国内的人也不愿意海归回去抢他们的饭碗 as an issue.


as for 走穴吹牛或者招摇撞骗, no doubt there will be few. However, I believe those who have the qualifications to success in us will do fine for china.

The reason i started this discussion is an after-thought of reading two books regarding chinese immigrant in US. One is written by my TAMU prof. Tang's son, http://www.amazon.co...5198137&sr=8-9. Another was a best seller http://www.amazon.co...25198225&sr=1-8 Both books documented the hardship that early chinese immigrants facing in US. My in-laws are descendants of railroad builders. The hardship they encountered were written as poems on the wall at Angel island. They came as labor but they were the future of their villages. Unfortunately they became the lost generation of their village.




if 海归 is not an option or is a dead end, then anyone coming to US will be "lost". Some may argue, time is different, but from my own experiences, the hardship that the early chinese immigrant encountered are still very much alive.They just change the shape. Me and my classmates found those potholes in our daily life. Granted, with the same determination and hard work, we, like the early chinese immigrants make a comfortable life for our-self and our family. However, among the successful stories, there are many untold broken dreams and broken families. Frankly, they are one too many and should be prevented.

Hence, I would like to see 海归 as a viable option for chinese students and young professionals in US. I would like to see the future chinese students who are interested in us education map out their 海归 option before they consider which us school to attend. If we can prevent one Angel Island sad story, we have done our deed as human being.

Therefore I would like to gather info for 海归 and like to make a depository for future students. I would appreciate very much if you can share your thoughts and experience for future students.

Thanks

YT

[roc999]

YT讲的很好。
我解释一下我自己的观点。虽然我认为当前石油技术型海龟的环境非常不成熟，但是我并不反对海龟。 也许再过一段时间，局面发生变化的时候海龟会成为一个viable的option， 我相信这种情况是所有海归和海不归都愿意看到的。

[晚侏罗纪]

国内的大环境让人敬而远之！无发展空间，无生活质量。黑暗面太多！

[CGGVeritas]

引用框（晚侏罗纪 ＠ 01-12-2012 - 02:57）

国内的大环境让人敬而远之！无发展空间，无生活质量。黑暗面太多！

我怎么感觉国内现在欣欣向荣，工资涨的也很快啊。

[CGGVeritas]

引用框（akabc47 ＠ 12-30-2011 - 04:19）

roc999说的很对啊，其实不光国外的人出于各种考虑不愿回去，国内的人也不愿意海归回去抢他们的饭碗，从今年饶毅，施一公院士落选的事就可以看出来，国内不稀罕人才，想回国施展抱负的想法是一厢情愿的，除非回去走穴吹牛比如杨振宁，或者招摇撞骗比如唐骏之流才有市场。

这两个空降回中国的人，凭啥回去就给他中国最高的院士荣誉？ 就是在国外发的文章多点？ 院士要是全方位的影响力和对中国的贡献。
回去了过个几年再给院士更适合，他们还没50岁急啥。他们的经费已经是以亿来计了，这还不行？

[roc999]

引用框（CGGVeritas ＠ 02-04-2012 - 18:21）

引用框（akabc47 ＠ 12-30-2011 - 04:19）

roc999说的很对啊，其实不光国外的人出于各种考虑不愿回去，国内的人也不愿意海归回去抢他们的饭碗，从今年饶毅，施一公院士落选的事就可以看出来，国内不稀罕人才，想回国施展抱负的想法是一厢情愿的，除非回去走穴吹牛比如杨振宁，或者招摇撞骗比如唐骏之流才有市场。

这两个空降回中国的人，凭啥回去就给他中国最高的院士荣誉？ 就是在国外发的文章多点？ 院士要是全方位的影响力和对中国的贡献。
回去了过个几年再给院士更适合，他们还没50岁急啥。他们的经费已经是以亿来计了，这还不行？

如果你看到石油行业成功的海龟一定要告诉我，非常希望能够学习学习。